November 30, 2007
The Techniques of Hospitality
My Short March Through China, by Gary Rosen
“It is Hong Kong’s good fortune to possess, in addition to its corporatist elite, a vibrant civil society, the rule of law, and a free press; China has no such safety valves for the discontent of its people, no resilience in its politics. The echo chamber of today’s Chinese regime—with its slogans and show trials, its claims of expertise and openness, its pretense of oversight and accountability—cannot do the work of pluralist democracy. As James Madison knew, an extended republic, even a ‘people’s’ republic, requires institutional checks and balances if it is not to devolve into a tyranny—or to remain one.”
Cat: | Time: 12:32 pm (utc+8)
November 30th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
I’m so tired of people like Rosen lecturing other countries on their own business. Just shut up already. You and your buddies have made enough of a mess.
November 30th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
bjk: I liked Rosen’s article and think we need more “lecturers” like him, imo.
November 30th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
bjk: “people like Rosen”….hmmm, why don’t you just say what you mean? You’re possible anti-Semitism is showing. What, you don’t like people lobbying for freedom over tyranny? I’m so sorry your are “so tired” of it. Take a nap. You have to change your line, now that the “mess” in Iraq isn’t looking so messy. Certainly not on par with the million killed under Mao, or the harsh repression that still exists. Know anyone jailed or who had relatives killed under communism? You won’t have a hard time finding them if you leave the comfort of your “liberal” lifestyle.
November 30th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Posted to the wrong thread. Anyway, you’ve said in other posts that the real question is how much to lecture China considering all the progross that’s been made since 1990. The problem with people like Rosen is that they have a simple answer for everything: elections. Considering the failure of the democracy program all over the world, maybe Rosen might want to rethink that, but no, he’d rather lecture China. I think a little humility would be more appropriate. I’ve visited miserable democracies, and I’ve lived in Singapore, which is a wonderful country without the slightest bit of democracy. But Rosen has one answer for everything.
As for the charge of antisemitism, isn’t that an ugly charge? It’s like calling a guy who leers at a young girl a pedophile. My parents always taught me not to make accusations unless I could back them up.
November 30th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
It’s their party and they’ll reform if they want to.
November 30th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
bjk: I was not accusing, I said very specifically “possible” anti-semitisim. You are the one who said “people like Rosen”, which, you must admit was somewhat evocative. You seem to need to dig deeper, Singapore a wonderful country? yes, but don’t forget to check the prisons. Hollywood types love Cuba too, not too interested in death counts or the prisons either.
November 30th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
Evocative? Uh, charlie, he quantified what he was tired of in the next few words, don’t know how you missed that.
I think suggesting (yes, it was an accusation) he was being antisemitic is pretty delusional.
November 30th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
dan: I think you might be a little naive. google neo cons and anti semitism and settle down for several months of reading. and try this on for size “I am so tired of people like Al Sharpton lecturing us, haven’t he and his buddies already made a mess of things?” now say that on network television and await the response.
December 1st, 2007 at 12:36 am
It’s kind of comical that Rosen can’t find any Chinese who agree with him. Even the students aren’t interested, but one of them does like the OC. That’s a start.
December 1st, 2007 at 1:41 am
bjk: wake up dude, the students know that they can’t speak the truth! wow, how is it that people raised in a liberal society can be so dumb. And, if they do agree with the government, they are victims of the propaganda they are steeped in. Jeeeez, is there any hope for us…have you noticed the people trying to get into the US, despite all the hatred for the country in the media. as a trader you should know, trade what you see, not what you read.
December 1st, 2007 at 1:05 pm
The real problem with “democracy”, as will be seen after the fact, is it has allowed the predatory, parasitic bankers to strangle us with their shell games by monopolistic blessing enforced by the govt (we the people). Hows that for a mind phuck?
Communist, socialists, capitalists….we’ve all been had. Jokes on us. Just be a good little coppertop, take the blue pill, keep running in place on your little rat wheel and let the mf’s at the top of the ponzi skim your productivity in exchange for something they create from nothing.
December 1st, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Donk - Are you sure you’re not Bill Cara?
December 2nd, 2007 at 12:23 am
Nope. I’m just a simple-minded, mouth breathing retard who thinks we should do away with the death penalty except for breaches of oaths of office.
I wonder if Andrew Jackson would be happy about being on a federal reserve note?
December 2nd, 2007 at 5:42 am
Donk, the blame lies with the US citizens for being asleep at the wheel and letting their elected representatives be swayed by lobbyists.
If Andrew Jackson was here, he’d kill the Federal Reserve just like he did before. Ol’ Hickory was a smart man!
December 2nd, 2007 at 7:24 am
The Chairman lives in China, so he would know better than a visitor or an outsider. Is there much interest in political reform among the Chinese you talk to?
December 2nd, 2007 at 9:02 am
bjk: That’s a very sensitive topic which usually goes undiscussed. If you’re critical of things, the Chinese turn defensive very fast — that knee-jerk reaction to defend the Motherland (which Rosen described) is a “face” thing and the Chinese are very proud — remember that the word for China is “Zhong guo,” the Middle Kingdom, i.e. the center of the world — outsiders are “barbarians.”
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:25 am
Thanks for the insight CM. The true value of this blog are your particular insights into life in China; stuff I’d never pick up anywhere else.
December 6th, 2007 at 5:43 am
interesting CM.. i didn’t realize the extent of nationality in China was that strong.
ps. i haven’t visited in a while, but is that an Obama link on the right? i like him as well. i’ve read that some polls show that if hillary wins the dem ticket many will vote republican with an “anybody but ..” motivation. this is relative to trading because it’s always easier to see the 2nd time — too bad the “anybody but” theme wasn’t played out in 2004.
December 6th, 2007 at 8:31 am
Buck: Yes, it’s very strong, even among educated and “sophisticated” people (like those PU students Rosen talked with).
I expect that Billary will win the nomination, putting me once again in an awful bind.
December 6th, 2007 at 10:38 am
You could vote for Ron Paul.
December 6th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
What is your “awful bind” you speak of? Can/do you vote from there?
Looks like the ad spammers have you in a “bind” still. How irritating that must be.
December 6th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
pancho: Of course I can vote from here … the awful bind is not wanting to vote for Billary but having to, just like with John Kerry. Yes, the spammers are back… fascinating exploit, I still haven’t found anyone who can explain to me how they do it.